+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 19:30:39

除了某些玩家脑补,把《暗黑破坏神》的剧情模式到处生搬硬套,欧美RPG的攻略也大大加深了玩家这方面的印象。因为任务的解决途径众多,为了完整表达游戏内容只能列出大致的解决办法,无法写出日式RPG那样的“小说攻略”。这些被剥离了血肉的骨头乍看上去确实单调乏味,不过如果日式RPG也按照这样的格式写,我们看到的也无非是“主角到A城与B对话,发现了C的阴谋,战斗后获得了道具D,交还给B……”。任何游戏按照这样的形式写攻略,都会给人留下刻板枯燥的印象。网络游戏的“自由”也给了玩家对欧美RPG的“自由”产生了理解偏差,不少玩家认为网络游戏升级加点加技能可选,就不逊于单机RPG;允许PK,自由组队,任务众多,于是便是“自由”了;NPC变成了真实玩家,可以与之聊天互动,于是乎自由度更在“欧美单机RPG”之上了。且不说网络游戏中玩家的一句话就会破坏整体世界观观感,欧美RPG的“自由”也和这些玩家理解的并不相同,甚至这些RPG实现“自由感”的办法都互不相同。以 Bioware和Bethesda为例,从《博德之门》到《质量效应》,Bioware的游戏都有着一条明确的主线,玩家不管怎么玩,对各个事件采取不同的解决方法,都不会影响游戏的主流程顺序。《博德之门2》中黑暗精灵城市一役,玩家之前的选择会影响最后对话和敌对阵营的不同,虽然会导致结果的变化,但最后矛盾爆发进行决战这个事件是必定经过的,但玩家通过选择站在何方获得了极大的参与感与代入感;而Bethesda的游戏,是一条简单主线和一个庞大的世界,玩家在其中就像学分制大学,只学必修课是远不够毕业的。为了玩通游戏,玩家还必须完成大量的支线任务,从而获得探索世界的乐趣,不少任务也提供了大量备选解决方案。因为游戏体制不同,对比网游,单机游戏本身就为人物培养的自由提供了更大的空间。如果网游中一个盗贼能独自潜入副本,在最终BOSS身边偷得珍贵道具,或者一个吭蒙拐骗的骗子靠自己如簧巧舌就让敌方放下武器,估计会让其他职业的玩家暴跳如雷,但在单机模式下却为玩家提供了截然不同的游戏体验,值得他们多次游戏。

  除了玩家有一定能力影响流程和多途径人物培养,我认为欧美RPG的“自由感”还在于NPC的脚本设置。日式RPG的NPC基本都是“对话罐子”,除了对话还是那几句对话;80年代的欧美RPG也是如此,但是此后他们开始通过脚本给每个NPC加上自己的作息与对玩家行为的反映,日出而作,日落而息,看到主角翻箱倒柜会自动出现警卫。试想某宅一句”抓小偷啊”,捕快将李逍遥团团围住的情形?现在欧美RPG更进一步引入环境互动,《哥特帝国》的农民知道拿起锄头保护自己的财产,《巫师2》视频中的居民看到被主角轰倒的房子知道上去围观并啧啧称奇。许多人把欧美RPG迷的优点统归为“自由”,但细分起来, “能够影响故事流程”,“多样化的角色培养”,“NPC与幻境的互动”,这三点结合起来才是拖动“自由感“的三驾马车。至于“想到哪里就到哪里,想干嘛干嘛”并非最为重要,否则Bioware那些有明确剧情走向的RPG绝不会活到现在——他们的游戏还有剧情自由度越走越窄的趋势。

  文章的最后,我想讨论下为什么欧美和日式RPG差别这么大。很多人肯定会条件反射的说“文化差异咯。”这个回答看似是万金油,但真能解决问题吗?在不少人眼里“文化隔阂”就意味着“老死不相往来”,真是这样吗?中国人不喜欢打棒球,美国人喜欢,这便是“文化隔阂”;日本人也爱打棒球,那也是“文化隔阂”;那么台湾人也爱打棒球,难道大陆和台胞之间也有这么深的文化隔阂?同样,北方人爱吃面,南方人爱吃米,到底是“文化隔阂”造成的,还是气候造成的?退一万步,中国游戏饭既有欧美游戏迷也有日式游戏饭,难道就有一派就不是炎黄子孙?日式RPG虽然脱胎于欧美RPG,但是其平台却与欧美截然不同。直到 90年代初,电脑都是带有“科技精英”色彩的高档工具,任天堂的游戏机主打用户却是中小学生,面对科学怪男和普通青少年的游戏当然会不同。日本RPG深受年龄定位类似的动漫产品影响,强调剧情演出,玩家可以舒舒服服握着手柄轻松的观看剧情。欧美RPG从建立人物到对话,都需要大量的阅读和思考才能选择适合自己的选择。如果玩家去日式RPG论坛和欧美RPG论坛,也会发现他们在年龄和趣味上的分野。不仅在亚洲,在欧美也是这样,历任黑岛和黑曜石公司主程的 Chris Jones就说他11岁的儿子接受不了《星球大战旧共和国武士》之类作品的信息量。

  在电脑走入寻常百姓家后,欧美CRPG经过一轮洗牌,那些80年代的经典连带它们的制作公司纷纷陨落,但《辐射》,《上古卷轴》等作却在死去泰坦的身上汲取养分后开创了自己的风格,成为了奥林匹斯的新神。现在的欧美RPG还在进行演化,《辐射3》《质量效应》在和其他类型进行融合,《神鬼寓言》则大大简化了NPC的动作:它将以往与NPC的复杂对话改成了简单夸张的动作,以此基础形成了一套易于上手丰富有趣的社交系统。日式RPG从PS时期3D化以后就进展甚微,许多90年代的旧作除了画面,和当前新作并无太大本质区别,其销量和口碑也盛极而衰,处于一个疲软阶段。正如前文所说的欧美制作人参考日式 RPG的优点,日式RPG同样也有一批先锋派在学习欧美同行。比如《最终幻想12》虽被国人认为网游化,但它可改变战斗AI的设定倒不如说是《博德之门》战斗脚本的日本化和游戏机化。日本著名制作人崛井雄二,坂口博信,松野泰已等人都是欧美RPG的资深粉丝,他们作品的基础也离不开欧美RPG的熏陶。此前曾有一位策划和我提到国内网络游戏往往使用了多次函数和二级等差数列,DQ的数值却永远是加减乘除,但这实际上是DQ身上《巫术》和D&D血脉的延续;SE的《最终幻想11》到现在都能吸引几百万玩家,很大一部分原因是因为他们挖来了原EQ的策划团队,其严密的数值控制能让游戏到现在都能保持潜力,不致失控,而其严格数值控制的思想其实也自D&D而来。讽刺的是,国内玩家为“欧美日本RPG”咬的死去活来的时候,欧美日本的同行却从没放弃学习对方。对于国内这些战饭来说,放弃自己的猜想和偏见,去尝试其他类型的RPG,不是挺好的么?




国内玩家对欧美RPG游戏的六大认识“误区”

http://wow.tgbus.com/emotion/bagua/201001/20100121112959.shtml

+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 19:46:50

淺談美式RPG與日式RPG的差異與融合

大部分的PC玩家,特別是純PC玩家,都無可避免的接觸過優秀的美式RPG作品,魔法門、Fallout、暗黑破壞神、博德之門等等。美式RPG之整體感覺與我們TV玩家熟悉的日式RPG差異鮮明,在玩法、文化背景、游戲目的和樂趣上讓我們感到新鮮與激動。依在下愚見,兩類型游戲中的優秀者在本質上不存在誰比誰更優秀、誰比誰更深度,因為游戲開發者本身在制作中追求的東西本來就不相同,猶如VF與TEKKEN、Ace Combat與Lock On,將其互相比較,得出誰比誰高的結論,是荒謬的。

  本文旨在嘗試總結兩種游戲類型中的鮮明差異,並歸納兩者的融合趨勢,希望對不了解這兩種游戲類型或者對其中一種持有偏見的朋友有所幫助。

  一、自由度

  關於日美兩式RPG差異的討論,大多圍繞在自由度這個話題上,這似乎也是日美兩式RPG最大的差異所在。一般的觀點是:自由度之說,美式RPG有而日式RPG無。其實關於自由度這種看法本身便是有問題的。

  美式RPG的自由度,體現在可以使用不同方法解決一段劇情上。以博德之門2舉例,主人公遇到人物A,A告訴主人公他被B困在籠子中,那麼解決此事件有以下辦法:1,做掉B放出A,從A處獲得獎勵。2,找到C,得到鑰匙放出A,得到獎勵。3,找到B,煽風點火從B處得到任務做掉A,從B處得到獎勵。可以看出,美式RPG在處理問題上顯得不拘一格。

  而日式RPG,舉其中最典型的例子——浪漫沙加,其宣稱的高自由度,不過僅僅是散落在地圖上的各個任務在完成順序上的自由罷了。至於隱藏分支等要素,往往只是體現在對於劇情或者世界觀的補完,游戲時間的延長上,對於劇情沒有影響。

  那麼,是不是就可以得出結論:美式RPG的自由度高於日式RPG呢?這個問題似乎是肯定的。

  可是在技術日益成熟的今天,日本廠商並不是沒有能力作出諸如Fallout那樣復雜的對話、分支系統,也不是他們不了解美式RPG成功的要素所在,對於美式RPG劇情上的分支優勢我相信日廠的制作人們理解的比我們這種普通玩家更深。那麼為什麼他們沒有選擇豐富的自由度呢?我認為的答案是:自由度並不是日系RPG廠商所關心的要素。原因很簡單,游戲開發者本身在制作中追求的東西本來就不相同:

  美式RPG所追求的是『創造』,而日式RPG則追求『體驗』。

  二、文化差異

  歐美文化和東亞文化的差異是十分鮮明的。美國人在他們的各種文化形式中留下了『自由』和『個性』的影子,而東亞人則在他們的作品中流露出了『傳統』和『繼承』。

  所謂內涵是指一個概念所反映的事物的本質屬性的總和。FF、DQ也好、Fallout、博得之門也好究其內涵都是RP(role play),每一個RPG都講述了一段傳奇的經歷,其中夾雜者肝膽相照的豪氣和談情說愛的浪漫。

  美式RPG的優勢在於它將歐美崇尚『自由』的文化融入到傳統的英雄救世,並深度的發掘自我,游戲的主旨其實是對自我的探尋。歐美文化有著不在乎結果,只關乎過程的特制,這也很好的被加入到RPG當中。戰斗並不是為了戰斗,因為戰斗只是你經歷歷程中的一小部分,其體現在於結果,在於你做了什麼、得到了什麼、失去了什麼、昇華了、墮落了、選擇了還是被選擇了。這一點大家可以將FF歷代與Fallout簡單的有些簡陋的戰斗系統和華麗的有些奢侈的特長系統對比一下便會發現。

  美式RPG無疑是成功的,它的成功在於它完成了——我做我,而非我扮演我或他人。所以說,美式RPG所帶有的高自由度這一特質,正是制作人所追求的,是文化所決定的。創造,是對美式RPG最好的總結。

  日本文化,由於其兼容性和並存性的特點,不僅具有東方民族特有的浪漫風情,還具有西方的開放的現代化特質,所以日本文化是一種開放性多元化的文化復合體,日本可以稱為世界先進文化最優秀的繼承者和實踐者。輕思辯重是日本式實用的文化心理,日本人的文化心理是重現實、重實用、重結果。

  在日式RPG中,我們可以看出制作人注重細節,注重人與人之間感情的表現。與美式RPG中的主角不同,日式RPG的主角性格是固定的,游戲經歷雖然是在給定的框架之中,但是這卻是比擁有更高自由度的美式RPG更好的表現劇本的條件。當主角下一步行動的進行權完全交給導演的時候,導演纔能徹底的表達自己想要展示給觀眾看的全部,這正式美式RPG在內容上欠缺的。日式RPG大多具備有深度的思想基礎,游戲過程的情節中常能看到對人性的思考,皇家騎士團是很好的例子,很完美。

  日本文化中還有一個比較特殊的小人物文化,通過對小人物命運的描寫來達到勵志的效果,這與日本社會壓力巨大有密切關系。當然,這不是本文所應該涉獵的話題。不過,在日式游戲中,這種勵志的例子也很常見。這也是日式RPG吸引人的獨一無二的特點之一。

  綜上,日廠制作人通常將重點放在對劇情的開發中,而回避自由度也是由其文化所決定的。與游戲的重復性和耐玩度相比,日式RPG更加追求劇本的完美與人物刻畫的鮮明,它的中心是讓玩家去體驗。

  三、游戲系統的差異

  前面說過,歐美RPG的主旨在於『做我』而非扮演某個既定的角色,因此游戲系統的重心便放在了『我』這個詞的身上。讓每個人都和他人不同,是歐美RPG游戲系統的宗旨。技能樹、技能點,對話系統的引入便是證明。而戰斗方面相對簡化、快速化,也是老美追求爽快的一種體現。

  而追求劇情精髓的日式RPG,由於需要戰斗部分來體現主人公的性格,展示故事的唯美與浪漫,所以將戰斗系統的復雜和華麗作為開發重點,相對弱化除戰斗之外的其他系統,傳說系列的戰斗系統是很好的證明。

  二十餘年來,二者依照自己的開發理念推陳出新,不斷進步,似乎是在獨立的發展,但是也在悄悄的互相影響,互相學習。雖然制作人所追求的目標依然不同,但是我們能看出二者在游戲系統等很多環節上有了對方的影子。

  四、融合

  Online game在經歷了MUD時代之後,在97年UO的帶領下走入了現在這個絢麗的時代。由於針對玩家群的擴大,制作者需要嘗試改變一些自己認為固有的東西來迎合另一種文化的玩家,系統以及世界觀的融合在所難免。被PC玩家和TV玩家所熟知的兩個例子便是FF11和WOW。在這兩款游戲中,可以看到日式和美式RPG雖然保留著原有的色調,但是文化的色彩已經完美的融合。

  在WOW中,你不僅僅做著你自己,而且也享受著導演劇本中宏大而細膩的劇情,你既擁有豐富的日常系統又擁有復雜的戰斗系統,你不僅僅是在創造,同樣是在體驗。

  WOW在亞洲的瘋狂成功不僅說明了Blizzard的眼光,也說明了日式RPG與美式RPG兩者優點互相融合的趨勢。

  十年之後,如果你拿到一款RPG,也許你已經難以辨認其中日式或者美式的影子,只需要去玩,去創造你想成為的你,去體驗導演的陰險和狡猾。

+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 19:52:16

欧美玩家眼中日式RPG游戏7大要不得
woyunfan
240位粉丝
1楼

1.队伍中必定带小孩
几乎所有日式RPG中必定有幼童或者看起来像幼童的角色加入主人公的队伍。拜托,带着个9岁小孩去执行生死未卜的任务,主人公的脑袋究竟出了什么问题?
2.坏蛋看起来不够坏
日式RPG中缺少那种看起来令人过目不忘的反派角色,这不仅仅是指外貌上的,同样也包括性格方面,而且这种“坏蛋不坏”的倾向在最近10年里尤为明显。
3.武器更换外型不变
当你历尽千辛万苦终于找到了那把有着华丽名字的终极武器(或防具)之后,你进入菜单,选择装备……然后你会发现你的角色身上穿的和手里的拿的完全没变化,就跟30个小时之前游戏刚开始时一模一样……
4.英语配音水平太低
在选择日式RPG游戏时,有没有收录日语的原声配音是一个重要标准,之所以会这样,是因为英语的配音实在是……太恶心。
如果要让玩家心甘情愿地坐在电视机前,与每个角色一起体验互动和成长的过程,那么就必须有一群足够出色的配音演员,来诠释那些或愤怒、或悲伤或震惊的感情,而不是平淡无奇的流水帐式念白。
5.便当领的太过突然
在近年来的日式RPG游戏中,你时常会看到下面这种极具戏剧性的场面:一个刚刚还披荆斩棘表现神勇的战士或是统领千军万马奋战沙场的帅气角色,在几段剧情过场后突然间就被干掉了,领便当的速度已经到了令人发指的地步。所以,既然大家都是活在剑与飞空艇的世界里,那么拜托请让他们的生命力看起来也和其他人一样更加可信一些。
6.迷宫解迷要素太少
随机生成的迷宫和随机出现的敌人,没完没了的重复战斗之后突然看到了记录点和BOSS……这种千篇一律的迷宫设计已经让人感到厌烦。相比之下,《塞尔达传说》系列中的迷宫设计就很好地融合了战斗与解迷的要素,虽然它是A·RPG。
7.主人公 = 好好先生
日式RPG的共通特征,主人公的性格大多温柔善良而且能忍辱负重,其成长历程总是体现着完全理想化的少年英雄式的发展轨迹。世界是变化的,人性是复杂的,比起塑造好好先生,为什么不能尝试一些看起来并不讨人喜欢(但依然很有趣)的主人公呢?千篇一律的拯救世界,为什么就不能毁灭它一次?

+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 19:54:19

IGN点评日式RPG三大弱点

在IGN的编辑通过视频狂喷《最终幻想13》以及整个系列之后,IGN也相当客观的指出了对于日式RPG的弱点看法和改进的意见。这里我们就选取最重要的三点进行介绍和简要的分析,通过对比日式RPG和欧美RPG的异同,希望得到解决目前日式RPG困境的出路。
痛苦的存盘

这个现象位列10大问题的第三,可见欧美玩家对于存盘点的设置有着相当深的怨念。的确在深不见底强敌环绕的迷宫中,一个全灭就可能让玩家之前1-2个小时的努力全部白费。这让的痛苦应该不仅仅是欧美玩家所有的,所有日式RPG玩家可能都深有体会。相比欧美RPG基本上可以做到随时存档读档的设定,看上去就更体贴玩家。

关于定点存档和随时存档的争论,其实一直就存在,针对欧美的随时存档日本玩家的反击就是这样会破坏剧情的连贯性,也大幅简化了游戏的探索的难度。因此目前许多日式RPG依旧延续定点存档的设定。针对这个问题的解决方法可能很简单,就是两者需要协调一下,日式RPG应该在迷宫和难度较大的关节增加存档地点,方便玩家。
老套的剧情

这个问题应该是老调重弹了,日式RPG经历了这么多年的发展,其剧情的发展应该说是最慢的,因为大多数就是正太、LOLI、大叔、御姐等固定角色一起经过千辛万苦最后拯救世界的故事。这里先不讨论那些老套的角色设定,就是剧情可以说在创新上的确让玩家失望。似曾相识的场景、熟悉的角色对话和性格设定、最终BOSS那不变的三形态。

反观最近几年的欧美RPG可以说是出现了相当繁荣的景象,摆脱了当年传统的魔幻风格,以《辐射》《质量效应》等新式RPG为代表,更多不同题材的作品的不断出现,的确让玩家看到了全新RPG的影子。而这也是欧美玩家对于自己风格RPG相当骄傲的一点,毕竟更黑暗的世界观、善恶的道路选择、更自由的剧情路线相比单纯的拯救世界要更让玩家着迷。


单调的战斗

这是IGN这次提出的最大问题,但也是日式RPG在不断改进的方面。从最古老的对面列队的文斗,到每一代最终幻想带给玩家们的系统改进,日式RPG在战斗方面也都不断寻求突破,但是最终都没能摆脱指令战斗这个最核心的系统。而这也正式欧美RPG在系统与日式RPG最大的不同。

欧美的RPG多以自由著称,其中就包括在战斗方面的自由,新型欧美RPG都采取了全自由的战斗方式,而这也使得许多玩家认为这样的欧美RPG更像FPS或是TPS。到底RPG应该采取日式指令战斗还是欧美即时战斗其实没有答案,不过有一点我们必须承认在战斗的爽快性欧美RPG略胜一筹。

欧美还是日式RPG都有着自己的忠实FANS,他们可能互不接受对方的RPG,不过想让RPG这种古老的游戏形式真正的发展,欧美和日式RPG都必须向对方学习,在取长补短中共同进步,现在也许正是日式RPG该向欧美RPG好好学习的时候了。

+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 19:57:09

锲而不舍,继续聊聊美式RPG的发展。(完成)
凤凰涅磐

如果说上一次的辉煌由黑岛开始,那同样是随黑岛结束。但今天回头看去,这个复苏期的短暂并不是没有理由的,3部最高的作品/系列:
博得/辐射/异域
无一不是曲高和寡的典型,异域自不必说,大篇的哲学思辨让游戏“没有大学文凭简直没法玩”。辐射启示录的背景设定虽得彩声一片,却也是制约其销量的主要因素,至于在题材上最中规中矩的博得,销量并非难看,但过于复杂的系统势必无法吸引更多初级玩家。


不出意料,神作的时代很快画上句号,黑岛成为历史,Bioware手中只剩下一个infinity的过时引擎,不得不做些动作游戏度日(MDK2是Bioware的作品),一切似乎都已结束。
(这里还值得一提的是Diablo系列,虽然大红大紫,但其实这部作品和真正意义上的美式RPG还是很不同的,很多人把这种类型称为“Diablo-like”就是这种原因,虽然官方的定义是A.Rpg,但以那个硕大无比的A和几乎缩没得RPG来看,很难把它当作美式RPG的代表作品之一来看待。)


在漫长的蛰伏期中,虽然还是涌现了不少佳作,但真正举起美式RPG全面复苏旗帜的却是bioware在xbox主机上的“星战:旧共和国武士”,本作终于打破了美式RPG长久以来叫好不叫座的魔咒,200万(xbox版)的最终销量虽然仍比FF,DQ差距不小,但如果仅从欧美角度(没出日版)来看(以及ps2和xbox的装机量差距),已呈现追赶趋势 *,不可否认星战的招牌极大的推动了本作的销量,但这恰恰点出了黑岛陨落的原因:孤芳自赏是行不通的,敢于接纳流行,通俗的文化才是康庄大道。
(*注:200万是美欧合计,其中北美150万,FFX 北美280万,欧洲210万,FF12北美183万,欧洲由于次时代冲击销量很低只有70万。但尽管毁誉参半,Fable仍卖出了260万份。)


终于,伴随着xbox360的上市,次世代战争正式打响,几乎同时,360版的上古卷轴:湮灭登陆市场,从晨风移植版尝到甜头的bethesda此次在整体操作上做出重大革新,以360版作为主力开发对象,相比之下PC版反而成了移植之作,至今,上古4还是次时代平台销量最高的RPG。Bioware当然不干寂寞,野心之作Mass effect终于在2007年底登场,至今也顺利晋升200万俱乐部(目前次时代只有着两款RPG突破200万),而3部曲的后两部也呼之欲出。接下来,只在今年内,fable2及fallout3就势必产生新一轮的搏杀,但作为玩家的我们,却为见证美式RPG的再一次复苏而欣慰….
形势好啊,不是小好,是大好…

严冬为何降临
虽然都被称为角色扮演,但个人认为JRPG中的“角色”用character翻译更加确切,因为玩家游戏中的如年龄,性别,种族,性格等等都是被设定好的,套上绝世帅哥的马甲去拯救世界吧…美丽的女主人公一定会爱上你,她没有第2条选择!而在美式RPG中丢给玩家的只是一个“Role”身分:在博得2中你是巴尔的孩子,辐射2中是the chosen one, mass effect的诺曼底舰长等等。总之,天降大任于斯人,大任你丫是躲不开了,斯人如何你就随意好了:想泡妞,没问题,把点数拼命往魅力和智商上扔把,结果还没见到美女就让地精爆了菊… 至于大块头则一定没有大智慧,别说泡妞了,买个药瓶人家都多收你3块钱。


正因为美式RPG更强调探索的本质,也就决定了其世界观设定大于一切的准则,这样的结果就是,由于一部作品无法架构如此庞大详细的世界设定,大量的美式RPG共享同一个天文地理志,再局限,也是一个系列一个世界观设定,作品之间的地理,种族一致,历史相连。


而探索就体现在除了世界秩序,其它的一切都是可变的:你的头衔,你的战友,你的敌人,你的老婆,你的坚挺程度等等等等。接下来问题就来了:假如你要去一个根本不了解的地方,是有个导游省心呢,还是自己瞎转好?在我看来,这就是日美两种RPG最大的分歧,日式RPG给你套上了马甲,确定了你的结局,保证这个地方得NPC们该对你笑得一定对你笑,要抽你脸的绝不踩你脚。像香港2日游一般把这个地方最关键的地方展示给你,于是你省心,他省力,皆大欢喜,销量就上去了。美式呢,别说阵营变化后大家对你的敌我关系大洗牌,魅力小点人家都不爱搭理你,对世界观不了解的玩家根本无从得知每个选择会带来的结果,偏偏制作者还要专门设定这许多反映,可谓受累不讨好,很多打算尝试的玩家就在初期的无所适从中退出了。


至于另一个极大制约美式Rpg销量的原因就是其中很多作品那是相当的重口味,阴森的地宫那是底线,异域一上来就在停尸房里,你就是一个诈尸的家伙,第一个同伴是个罗罗嗦嗦的骷髅头。辐射2里更是满世界的**… 评审机构的一个For 17+就把游戏打出主流消费层:有几个18岁以上的家伙有时间和精力连续10几小时趴在电脑前玩RPG,阅读大量的对话?至今黑岛员工在我脑海中的形象还是一帮住在象牙塔里,不食人间烟火的家伙们。也许,好游戏不需要销量证明,可程序员的老婆孩子们需要。于是黑岛散了伙,美式RPG界一片沉寂,直到春天的再次降临。

进入黑岛后时期的美式Rpg界难以进入主流的实现,虽然无冬之夜和地牢围攻小小辉煌了一下,但难以肩负复苏的大任,不再沉默中爆发,就在沉默中灭亡….
于是我们等到了“星战:旧共和国武士”我依然记得很多TV游戏论坛对当年此游戏横扫各媒体GOTY的诧异,因为某种程度上说,这是正统美式RPG沉寂多年来再一次完全对应主机的游戏。这款游戏,确立了未来Bioware RPG的改革方向。


大体上讲,我以为美式RPG得以再次复苏主要有3个原因:


1.
简化:无疑,美式RPG的系统较之JRPG更加深邃,但不客气地讲,这是建立在复杂的基础上的,而难学难精的系统无疑是令新手望而却步,销量止步不前的最大原因,如前面所说,美式RPG的玩家所要考虑的并不局限于战斗方面,阵营选择,交际能力的提高同样重要。在这部作品中,首先职业被简化了,不似博得无冬中10数种职业让人无从选择;不再有错综复杂的阵营设定,改为直观的道德系统,玩家在剧情中可以很简单的在善恶中做出选择。战斗方面:首先,只有激光剑和枪,比以往中古奇幻刀叉剑戟不同属性直观的多。再有,最多3人的小队战斗也不会像以往的6人小队那样令人手忙脚乱了。

2.
表现力:人们往往都说日式游戏更加细腻,这点我并不能认同,欧美人在RPG世界架构上的耐心和细致是无可比拟的,但在表现力上,与博得,辐射同期的FF7已经在电影式的运镜上做出了成功的尝试。尽管有着口碑极佳的剧情,但明显前两者在商业上的成功远不及后者;正所谓吃一堑长一智,现在欧美业界在游戏(不只RPG)presentation(表现形式,并不局限于画面技术与美工)
上的开发远超同期的日本同行,各种新的idea层出不穷。RPG中,Mass effect中的“数字演员”应用为如何在美式RPG中兼顾自定义核心和电影式的表现力上做出了杰出贡献,使整个游戏呈现出一种80年代经典科幻电影的氛围。接下来的辐射3虽大概不会在这方面有所创新,但“能以第一人称视角在被毁的华盛顿特区冒险”的炒作潜力绝对比以往上帝视角中的加州来的大。

3.
游戏机:以往的欧美游戏大多产生于PC并非没有原因的。电视游戏中“文化”的产生大约起始于FC,之前的游戏机游戏都太过简陋。到了SFC时期,游戏中的人物,世界架构,剧情甚至美工设定越来越受到重视,这个时期欧美的电视游戏RPG玩家多是一些“ACG”迷,所以欧美RPG进军电视游戏的意义不大(尽管如此,SFC上还是产生了一款叫作Shadow Run的美式RPG佳作)。到了PS时期,大量欧美厂商开始加入主机游戏开发阵容,日本游戏在欧美的垄断于本世代受到挑战,到了PS2这个世代,全球市场上欧美厂商已可以与日厂分庭抗礼,欧美本地更是占据优势,所有这一切,使得欧美电视游戏玩家的结构发生了重大改变,本土文化的立足使得美式RPG向主机进军变得顺理成章,带来的利润也更大。


最后,我想引用一下IGN在一篇“RPG未来”专稿中的一段话来收尾“It's great to see some Western RPGs that can finally battle with JRPG heavy hitters, which will inevitably force both Western and JRPG developers to come up with new ways to distinguish their products and remain successful。很意外的看到,IGN认为今后美式与日式RPG并不会互相借鉴并最终融合,而是会走向更大的分歧….

+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 20:14:06

Final Fantasy Director's Take On Western Vs. Japanese RPGs


Final Fantasy Director's Take On Western Vs. Japanese RPGs
How does Final Fantasy XIII director Motomu Toriyama explain the difference between Japanese-designed role-playing games and their western counterparts? By pointing out the divide between classic RPGs like Tomb Raider, Hitman and Final Fantasy.
I know what you're thinking. "Tomb Raider and Hitman aren't western RPGs!" But Toriyama's argument was that western gamers—or, more specifically, players of Eidos games that let players control a singular protagonist—play from their own perspective. Japanese gamers play from the perspective of their character, comfortable playing as a third-party participant with a bird's eye view of the action.
Sure, it makes a strange slide and Toriyama's generalizing theory may have some huge holes in it, but there you go. Square Enix's perspective on the matter.

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Top 10 Ways to Fix JRPGs
How to save the genre we love so much.

January 11, 2010 - The Japanese role-playing game (JRPG) has been part of the videogame tradition for many years. Some of our earliest gaming memories involve such names as Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star and Lunar. But Japanese game developers certainly weren't the first or last developers to work on RPGs. Western studios have tackled similar projects and the Western RPG has risen to immense prominence recently with such games as Mass Effect and Fallout 3. In fact, many have argued that U.S. development studios have grown with the hardware technology and have implemented gameplay evolutions as well as graphical ones. But Japanese developers have been less enthusiastic to abandon tradition.

If you've played a JRPG recently, you might have noticed that some games still conform to the standards that were acceptable on consoles that are now two or three generations old. We're here to fix that.

Don't be mistaken: we love JRPGs -- we want them to do well. But when games on the PS3 and 360 are following Super Nintendo rules, something just has to change. Let's take a look at the top ten fixes to save the JRPG legacy, without losing that special something that makes them unique.




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10.) People Live Here?

Could you imagine living in the world of a JRPG? People only have one thing to say. Everything looks sterile and static. Nobody moves much, nor do they care if you ruffle through their houses or crates. There are only a couple of open stores that have anything for sale, and for some reason those goods have a higher price the further away from home you get.

One of the great successes of Bethesda's games, like The Elder Scrolls franchise and Fallout 3, is that the worlds feel alive. They look like they've been lived in. The people act like they have real priorities. They react to each other, but -- more importantly -- they react to you.

We don't need the towns to be redesigned to mimic Western role-playing games. If they did, some of the charm of JRPGs would be lost. It is high time, however, that the towns in JRPGs get an upgrade.

Recent Culprit: Blue Dragon


9.) The Only Good Filler is Jelly in Donuts

You've almost saved the world from certain doom. All that's left to do is to run through this last dungeon and confront the ultimate evil. But first, you and your party of unlikely heroes must fight every boss you faced in the previous 50 hours worth of gaming... again.

There are easy ways to add 10 or 20 hours to a role-playing experience. Recycle fights or dungeons. Make the party grind its way up to some arbitrary level before the player can win. Force the character to backtrack across fields full of random battle encounters. We call these things "filler" and they have no place in a JRPG. Nobody remembers them. Nobody enjoys them. Nobody looks forward to them. The only thing they really can do is turn a player away from the genre.

Recent Culprit: The Last Remnant

8.) Invest in Presentation

Any gamer familiar with the JRPG will immediately recognize what we like to call the "talking cardboard cutout." This classic mechanic superimposes character portraits onto the screen and displays a dialogue box underneath, which effectively eliminates the need for developers to animate sprites or character models. This technique is getting old fast. With Western RPGs implementing fully animated, interactive dialogue sequences (see Mass Effect and Dragon Age), players have come to expect more production value when dealing with an RPG storyline. Developers can't cut corners anymore.

If budget is a concern and a studio can't afford to present every section of dialogue in a cinematic fashion, why not come up with a unique way of telling the story? The talking cardboard cutout isn't a necessity -- it's a crutch.

Recent Culprit: Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice

7.) The Road Less Traveled

One of the most important elements of the traditional JRPG was exploring the world map. After all, there was nothing quite as liberating as acquiring the key to your very first airship and taking to the skies, flying over vast oceans and sprawling mountains with an entire world to explore.

Although some JRPGs still attempt to keep this broad structure, many have been tragically limited. Players will often be nudged from Point A to Point B with almost no freedom to explore. Japanese developers need only look at the popularity of games like Fallout 3 to see that open worlds are greatly appreciated by gamers. Yes, a JRPG can still have a linear story, but that linear quality needn't extend into the gameplay

Recent Culprit: Eternal Sonata

6.) Cliches are for Chumps

An unfortunate habit of Japanese developers is to stick with recognizable archetypes for character designs. The lone swordsman. The charming female magic user. The mildly frustrating -- but still lovable -- little kid. The bird-dude that uses a poison mace and keeps a smaller bird-dude as an adorable pet. We've seen them all before and we want something new.

Let's not mistake this for a general dislike towards anime-style designs -- quite the contrary. We love anime and we love the Japanese aesthetic, but developers need to shake things up a bit and give us characters that we haven't seen before. After all, the cast of an RPG is the lifeblood of the entire game. If a player can't grow to love the characters and connect with the experience on a deeper level, we'd argue that the game has -- at least to a certain degree -- failed.

Recent Culprit: Magnacarta 2

5.) Voice Acting Approaches

You've all seen it before: a review that includes the fabled line "terrible voice acting" somewhere in the text. Many JRPGs suffer from this problem, and while this issue could be the result of a simple lack of localization funds, there's a much more troubling problem to be found: differences between U.S. and Japanese culture.

In Japanese animation, games and more, extremely childish, high-pitched voices are as common as sophisticated and comfortable toilets. But that sort of vocal styling is alien in the United States. This is not to say it doesn't work in Japan, but when an American voice actor or actress attempts to mimic that same style in a different language and culture, it just doesn't sound natural. It might require more effort in the localization process, but publishers bringing over Japanese RPGs should attempt to better adapt actual character personalities to suit a Western audience. Unless you're going to keep the Japanese voice track and subtitle it (which is an absolutely welcome option), some changes need to be made.

Recent Culprit: Enchanted Arms

4.) I Feel So Alone

Games like Diablo and the recently released Borderlands have shown us that gamers love playing online with others. Even more telling than the success of those titles is the rabid popularity of MMOs and the now household recognition that World of Warcraft so readily enjoys. JRPGs need to learn from these design philosophies and incorporate online elements.

The upcoming PS3 exclusive, White Knight Chronicles, is a perfect example of a JRPG that is trying to capitalize on the popularity of online gaming. The game not only has a full single-player campaign but it also has an online multiplayer mode for taking created characters into the battlefield with other gamers. Expanding a game's scope to include multiplayer is an excellent way to increase a game's replay value.

Recent Culprit: Tales of Vesperia

3.) No More Save Points

Many of us grew up with Japanese role-playing games and have heads filled with happy memories of staying up all night to best a particular dungeon or grind our way towards victory. Along the way... we grew up. Carefree youth filled with lazy summers and nothing more than a book report to distract has given way to lives with actual responsibilities.

While a four hour dungeon with no option to save may have been OK once, and maybe even added to the tension, it isn't anymore. We need to be able to start and stop our gaming at our leisure. We need to be able to walk away from a game and not have to leave a system running (Think of the environment!) for fear of losing hours worth of progress.

Let us save our game whenever we want. Then toss in some checkpoints for good measure, just in case we forget to make use of that liberty.

Recent Culprit: Star Ocean: The Last Hope

2.) Write a New Story, Mkay?

How many times have we filled the shoes of a lonely teenager from a small village? How many times has that village been attacked by a wandering group of bandits? How many times has your videogame father, in his final moments of life, whispered to you that you are in fact the promised one, destined to bring Order, Life and Beauty to a world besieged by the never-ending waves of darkness?

Not all JRPGs follow the stereotypical plots we've grown a little too accustomed to (the Persona series shows us that the Japanese can get real creative in that department), but we want some innovation when it comes to storytelling. After all, an RPG's story is one of its fundamental selling points -- why recycle such precious material when it could make the game shine? Let's have an RPG revolve around a mother searching for her child, or perhaps a ghost investigating his own death. We came up with those ideas in 15 seconds, okay? Surely JRPG developers can do better!

Recent Culprit: Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII

1.) Battle Systems: Kick It Up a Notch

Although story, characters and musical scores are all extremely important elements to the JRPG equation, the absolute heart of the experience lies in the battle system. Players will spend most of their play time fighting all sorts of monsters and villains, so that battle system needs to be finely tuned and fun. Unfortunately, a number of JRPGs have relied heavily on the now dry tradition of the simple "Attack, Magic, Item, Defend" dynamic that we've seen for decades. This just doesn't cut it.

A good battle system needs a good hook -- something to set it apart from its peers. Think Final Fantasy VI's Magicite or Breath of Fire's dragon transformations. A JRPG needs to make battles so fun, you're eager to encounter another enemy. It's been a long time since we've felt that way.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Freedom vs Teabagging: Japanese Gamers Sound Off


It's no secret that over the last few years, Japanese video game companies have been struggling to attract and retain the same foreign audience that once swarmed to play their products. In the spirit of constructive criticism, IGN writers Erik Brudvig and Ryan Clements published a top ten list of foreign players' top ten complaints about Japanese role-playing games on Monday. Less than a week later, a stack of Japanese replies and comments have appeared on the anonymous sanctuary of the 2ch BBS system.

As expected, one country's "problems" are another's cultural pride and joy. Oh, the humanity.... People, can't we just get along? Read on for a translation of some of the highlights.


"What!? Fallout is the SAME THING! You fight the same enemies, collect the same items... There's no sense of exploring unknown territory or anything. No matter how much freedom the player has, that's all there is."


"Oblivion and Fallout fanatics are exponentially more annoying than any Final Fantasy fanatic."

"Hey foreigners: we find your first-person shooters boring as shit. What do you say to that?"

"When I see all the 'sniping' and corpse-desecrating 'teabagging' going on in US games, the thought of what what foreigners do when they get mad freaks me out."

"I'm sorry, but the battle systems in foreign games are totally boring."

"Yeah, like Oblivion's. But I guess it isn't the main focus of that game."

"Japanese RPGs are created for the express purpose of letting one experience the blooming of their full powers from a total zero starting point. They're necessary for keeping public order in Japan."

"Okay, so give us some foreign RPGs that are more interesting than Japanese ones. I just don't find foreign RPGs interesting at all."

"Oblivion's okay, but foreign games lack subtlety. They lack detail, and the character design and stories are bad."

"Americans can't understand complexity so a lot of the best stuff doesn't get translated. Like Megami Tensei!"

"That bit about "The Road Less Travelled?" #7? That's a common complaint... of inexperienced gamers. Like, I felt that way when I was in grade school."

"So sorry, but I LIKE Japanese-style RPGs."

"The real problem with Japanese RPGs is that the storylines aren't written by pros, only gamers."

"Oblivion didn't fare that well here, and Japanese don't really get into real-time strategy games."

"I call 'cultural differences'!"

"Show me an American-made RPG that satisfactorily addresses all of these complaints."

"Do foreign companies even make RPGs anymore? The only games that come to mind are first-person shooter action games. If we followed this 'advice' to the letter they'd have us making Grand Theft Auto clones."



\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

IGN tells Japan how to fix RPGs, Japan says STFU

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IGN posted an article on the top 10 ways to fix RPGs that can be seen here http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/106/1060011p1.html

Seems like the Japanese didn't take too well with this, with a highlight of their comments:

"What!? Fallout is the SAME THING! You fight the same enemies, collect the same items... There's no sense of exploring unknown territory or anything. No matter how much freedom the player has, that's all there is."

"Oblivion and Fallout fanatics are exponentially more annoying than any Final Fantasy fanatic."

"Hey foreigners: we find your first-person shooters boring as ****. What do you say to that?"

"When I see all the 'sniping' and corpse-desecrating 'teabagging' going on in US games, the thought of what what foreigners do when they get mad freaks me out."

"I'm sorry, but the battle systems in foreign games are totally boring."

"Yeah, like Oblivion's. But I guess it isn't the main focus of that game."

"Japanese RPGs are created for the express purpose of letting one experience the blooming of their full powers from a total zero starting point. They're necessary for keeping public order in Japan."

"Okay, so give us some foreign RPGs that are more interesting than Japanese ones. I just don't find foreign RPGs interesting at all."

"Oblivion's okay, but foreign games lack subtlety. They lack detail, and the character design and stories are bad."

"Americans can't understand complexity so a lot of the best stuff doesn't get translated. Like Megami Tensei!"

"That bit about "The Road Less Travelled?" #7? That's a common complaint... of inexperienced gamers. Like, I felt that way when I was in grade school."

"So sorry, but I LIKE Japanese-style RPGs."

"The real problem with Japanese RPGs is that the storylines aren't written by pros, only gamers."

"Oblivion didn't fare that well here, and Japanese don't really get into real-time strategy games."

"I call 'cultural differences'!"

"Show me an American-made RPG that satisfactorily addresses all of these complaints."

"Do foreign companies even make RPGs anymore? The only games that come to mind are first-person shooter action games. If we followed this 'advice' to the letter they'd have us making Grand Theft Auto clones."

+ALUCARD+ 发表于 2010-3-23 20:18:33

反抄袭”软件遭遇大学生“反反抄袭”

ugmbbc发布于 2010-02-06 10:10:57|22689 次阅读 字体:大 小 打印预览      


“我要是早生两年就好了,现在写毕业论文真麻烦!”这句话最近成了北京某高校大四学生罗菲琼的口头禅。让小罗感觉生不逢时的是2008年年底登陆中国高校的“论文测谎仪”(即所谓的“学位论文学术不端行为检训系统),目前已经得到了广泛应用,并被学界寄予厚望。再过几个月,小罗能否顺利毕业,就看它了。


随着“论文测谎仪”的隆重登场,“天下论文随便抄”的时代似乎一去不复返了。复制粘贴“攒”论文,虽然轻松省事,可如今却意味着往枪口上撞——“有贼心没贼 胆”的学子,只能望“抄”兴叹了。“其实我也想搞原创,我只是一个小小本科生,哪儿来的原创性科研成果啊!毕业论文,太纠结了。”小罗叹了口气。

叹气是没用的,套用哈姆雷特的说法,抄还是不抄,这是个问题。

与小罗的干着急不同,越来越多的学生已经开动了“脑筋”:毕竟从小就在应试教育中摸爬滚打,大家早就练就了一身超顽强的反侦察功夫,“上有政策,下有对策”,为了对付“反抄袭”软件,大学生想出了五花八门的“反反抄袭”招术。

“反反抄袭”招数一:改写

张心彤是北京某重点文科类院校的大四毕业生。她躲避“论文测谎仪”的方法听起来有些笨,但却很“实用”,那就是——改写。“不是论文不能抄,要看你会抄不会抄!”张心彤把这句话当作至理名言。

张 心彤面前摆了厚厚一摞参考资料,每本书都做了很多标注。“东拼西凑其实并没有过时,关键在于要仔细,不能露出马脚。首先在不同的资料当中找到我需要的东 西,然后把每句话变变句式,换换说法,加一些解释性的扩充,略作增删,最后把这些部分组织到一起,论文就大功告成了。虽然繁琐一点,但是最后出炉的论文, 嘿嘿,绝对就像去韩国做了整容手术一样,焕然一新!再牛的测谎仪见到我这论文,估计也只有叹气的份儿。”张心彤一脸的洋洋自得。

“多 加参考书目,把脚注一通乱加,那就是双重保险了!”张心彤的同学小徐插嘴道,“有的时候,东拼西凑出一大段话,但是又不知道怎么改写更好,就干脆给这段话 原封不动地加上一个引号,然后再给这段话编一个相应的脚注。首先,‘引用’部分不算作抄袭,‘论文测谎仪’会自动剔除;其次,老师根本不可能有精力去检查 我的每个脚注是否真实。这样一来,我的抄袭怎么可能被发现呢?”张心彤和小徐两人一唱一和,笑作一团。

“反反抄袭”招数二:翻译

张 心彤和小徐还不能算“反反抄袭”一族中最谨慎的。北京某综合类研究型大学的大四女生丁晓薇认为,要抄,就不能留下任何痕迹。她的方法更加繁琐,但也更加保 险,那就是翻译。“据我所知,跨语言的论文测谎系统还没有研发出来。”丁晓薇笑得有点狡黠,“我广泛查阅外文资料,挑出可以为我所用的部分,按照一定框架 合在一起,一篇拼凑的英文论文就诞生啦!再把它翻译成中文,毕业论文不就有着落了吗?说我抄袭,那个测谎仪软件查得出来吗?”

这 种方法对英语水平有很高要求,不过,英语一般的同学也有自己的“门道”。丁晓薇透露,她周围就有一些同学,会付钱给学校里英语专业的研究生,请他们对自己 的“双语论文”全程把关。“我在学校里就见过墙上贴着这种小广告,英语专业的学生为人操刀论文,据说价格也不菲,少则几百元多则上千元,像我这种钱包瘪瘪 的穷学生,还是自力更生比较好!”丁晓薇说。

“反反抄袭”招数三:取巧

改写也好,翻译也罢,都是力气活儿。1万字的论文,如果字字改写,句句翻译,恐怕论文没写完,已经是人比黄花瘦,华发上鬓头了。在丁晓薇看来,理工科学生是天下最幸福的人,因为“理工科的论文,变变数据图表啊,变变操作环节啊,就可以变成自己的东西了,反抄袭软件根本查不出来”。

的 确,和丁晓薇相比,北京某理工类高校自动化专业的毕业生郭胥明要“淡定”得多。“我觉得这个论文测谎仪对理工科的学生来说影响不是很大。”郭胥明说,“如 果说以前抄袭,同学们敢‘公然犯法’的话,现在顶多是精心掩盖一下‘犯罪现场’。你也知道,理工科的个人成果要好出一些,数据不一样,画图不一样,结果就 不一样。”

某高校软件工程学院计算机专业的大四男生贾英松也深有同感。他说:“自己写个软件,下载一个源代码,然后根据需要加以修改,就能把代码变成自己的啦!最后用自己的框架搭建起来,我的毕业设计就完成了。”

“反反抄袭”招数四:Google新用

如果说以上所有同学的“反反抄袭”招数都还在大家的理解范围之内的话,那么北京某市属高校大四学生吴兵的“反反抄袭”法,则让人瞠目结舌,以为自己遇到了火星人。

吴兵把自己的方法,命名为“Google法”。

“Google有什么新鲜的,最老套了,老师们都用Google反抄袭了?”笔者不解。

吴 兵解释道:“所谓‘Google法’,就是找一篇现成的论文,把论文的每一段都用Google在线翻译成英文,然后将翻译好的英文用Google在线翻译 全部转回中文。猛地看上去,跟原文差不多;可是仔细一看,其实每句话都不一样!只要自己再把少量的语病改一改,就大功告成了。”

“这胆子,也未免太大了点儿吧?难道不会被发现?”笔者问。

“没 事儿,提交论文之前,上淘宝网,有很多卖家会提供‘论文检测服务’!”吴兵胸有成竹地说,“卖家也持有类似的论文检测软件,你通过卖家可以查看自己的论文 有哪些破绽,再把露出马脚的部分精心修改。这样一来,把毕业论文交上去,就不会有什么风险了。”吴兵表示,身边有很多同学都准备这样做,“花钱买个放心 呗!”

论文测谎仪就像武功盖世的郭靖孤军奋战在襄阳城

在采访中,虽然很多学生说起自己和“论文测谎仪”斗智斗勇的招数都有点小得意,但另一方面,他们对自己的“变相”抄袭行为也都表示很“鄙视”。

“其 实我们也不想抄啊!”贾英松说,“大学四年,大家的精力,都被各种考证、活动、实习、兼职瓜分得干干净净,‘研究’二字真是既遥远又奢侈。再者,临近毕 业,就业压力极大,就算毕业论文成绩拿了优秀,对找工作也没什么帮助。在这种情况下,要拿出一份有水准的原创学位论文,谈何容易啊?没有原创的能力和精 力,只能投机取巧了。”

一位不愿透露姓名的大学老师表示,虽然反抄袭软件在一定程度 上遏制了明目张胆的学术作假行为,但事实上,它使很多人转向了精心造假。“在一个浮躁的学术环境里,‘论文测谎仪’功能再强大又如何?这就像武功盖世的郭 靖孤军奋战在襄阳城,结局肯定是悲剧。真希望有一天,学生们会不知抄袭为何物,不知‘论文测谎仪’为何物。”

fjxwud 发表于 2010-3-24 11:21:20

游戏设计的话在国内估计以后就走网游路线了....
另外要求已经说了...那就是98...:$
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